Thursday, November 28, 2019

Was Vancouver FSSP Priest Removed Because Of This Sermon?

"The Thorns of Idolatry"
http://www.luke2427.org/sermons/20191027_The_Thorns_of_Idolatry.mp3

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fH3zOL224u0IlXtQce8pkQCfsKVsYCq5/view

I have the file downloaded in the event the main link gets deleted. Here is the link for now.

The mention of the name of Francis begins at 15:22
Total Length 25:35


“Francis is (like) a thorn than has pierced the sacred head of our Lord."

Fr. Fromageot was given a "surprising" exit from Holy Family Parish in Vancouver. Was it because of this sermon? 

Here are the words of Fr.Geddes to the Parish after the news broke.

"Fr. Fromageot will be transferred to the United States this week and therefore today is his last Sunday at Holy Family.As much as this comes as a surprise and disappointment to us, let us keep in mind that we priests serve the needs of the Fraternity. We also promise obedience to our superiors and sometimes this comes at the expense of our desires.”







21 comments:

MEwbank said...

My sincere congratulations to Fr. Robert Fromageot for his courage in stating the truth.

Islam_Is_Islam said...

Thank you for the heads up, Mr Martinez. I will pray for Fr. Fromageot. Without your notice I would not have known of his courage.

Dr Gerald Mader MD said...

Finally a clergyman with the courage to call the truth the truth. Where are our bishops and cardinals?

Caravanserai said...

What are you talking about? He is already gone from the church. He has been deleted from the church web site. It is public record. It is NOT gossip. No one is at fault for stating a clear fact of public record. And this man should NOT be ashamed. What is wrong with YOU? Do you think, "Hear no evil; see no evil; speak no evil," was an early Catholic icon?

D said...

Removing comments doesn't mean it isn't gossip. Shameful. Talk to a priest.

Anonymous said...

These sermons are recorded and only the parishioners are supposed to have access ... You need a password to access them and we are NOT supposed to share them .....

Osusanna said...

well there goes my trust.
Mary Help of Christians pray for us,

A Confraternity member.

Choose you this day whom you will serve.

Anonymous said...

Fr. Fromageot was not removed because of a sermon or a series of sermons. He was removed because he violated the Diocesan Safe Environment Policy. This was clearly stated to the parish on Sunday. Sorry but this article is misleading.

Anonymous said...

First, referring to the immediately preceding comment, the above posting could very well be updated, but to say that it is “misleading” is itself misleading.

Why is this posting NOT misleading?
The blogger merely posed a question, which is not to be confused with making a claim. He put forth a hypothesis within the context available at the time he posted it. Fr. Fromageot was popular priest, and people were searching for answers, which is to be expected.

What was the context of the blogger’s question?
Had the blogger expanded his question to include Fr. Fromageot’s several sermons on the same subject at Holy Family, then he would have addressed what was on many parishioners’ minds. There were many people who wondered if Fr. Fromageot was terminated because of sermons, and with good reason. For example, since he became pastor, Fr. Geddes has publicly and consistently discouraged parishioners from prudentially discussing the scandals in Rome. These kinds of sermons are a thorn in Fr. Geddes side. But he is not the only one. Even this past Sunday, Fr. Geddes admitted that Fr. Fromageot’s Little Rock sermon had drawn a layman’s complaint and “the matter is still under consideration”. Of course, the blogger did not know there was some other reason for Fr. Fromageot’s departure, because Fr. Geddes withheld the explanation in his Parish Wire of 24 November 2019. And now he blames the blogger.

What encouraged speculation about Fr. Fromageot’s departure?
It was that Fr. Geddes unwisely left a vacuum. In his sermon on Sunday he admitted that he had hoped “what I told you was sufficient for what you needed to know”, which was nothing. He offered no explanation, and referred only to “obedience”; evidently reason is not what is expected of parishioners.

The blogger duly included the aforementioned Parish Wire in his posting, allowing it to stand on its own without comment. Fr. Geddes sent it only after Fr. Fromageot had announced his own dismissal; and that too gave no information, only a statement to the effect that he was embarking on a new life. Why would people not wonder and speculate about what was going on?

In his sermon, Fr. Geddes paraphrased the blogger’s question but still identified it as “rumour” which he claimed was “spreading slander”. Such inflation of language does no particular credit to Fr. Geddes when it comes to calm and rational fact-based discourse. That this little blog—which he advertised in his sermon— was perpetuating a “lie” and has “slandered” the parish, the Archdiocese and the Fraternity is preposterous. By deliberately identifying the name of the blog, he identified an individual parishioner in a negative light before the entire congregation, hence attempting to accomplish by social pressure what he could not manage by twice asking the blogger by phone to remove his posting.

This is not a comment on Fr. Fromageot, but on the process of his removal
Fr. Geddes spoke of a very swift and perfunctory “investigation” which resulted in the claim that Fr. Fromageot was in violation of policy. There is no question here of saying the allegation is true or false, only of the way in which the matter was handled.

Conclusion
No one can prove that Fr. Fromageot did NOT violate the so-called Safe Environment Policy.

Events like these take place in a highly charged and politicised atmosphere in an institution whose authorities are going to protect themselves first; and that explains much of how things are done pre-emptively and quickly under such rubrics as a “Safe Environment” protecting “minors and vulnerable persons”. There is no argument against such political speech, and the standards of evidence that goes with it comes with a much lower threshold of proof than what we are accustomed to expect in a court of law; but we should never exchange the presumption of innocence for a model based on obedience.

Fr Geddes said...

I asked you to remove your article by Sunday. I told you why Fr Fromageot left- broke Safe Environment policy and it was not because of the sermon. I told you if you didn’t remove your article by Sunday that I would have to mention it from the pulpit. I told if you took it down, I would not mention anything about the blog. You refused to take it down even though I told you the truth and therefore I followed through for the public good. Had you not posted your article encouraging the spread of misinformation, the real reason as to why Fr Fromageot had left would not have been revealed. You damaged Fr Fromageot in attempting to make him out as a hero. You were duly warned and could have easily taken down the article.

Your conclusion is wrong and does injustice to those whom he has harmed.

Anonymous said...

Blogger more people are with you than you know.
If Father F. Was removed so swiftly because of safety concerns - how negligent was it
To leave the parish in his hands ? Father F even participating as a judge on a Vancouver Catholic School
Competition on Saturday before his announcement? He was left to lead all three masses on Sunday,
If everything the parish priest said is true... then he was negligent leaving parishioners in the hands of
A person he does not trust. The whole thing smells rotten. Nothing makes sense. And the parish priest threw Father F under the bus
How did he protect his name exactly? Seems more like revenge, seems like an inappropriate announcement instead of a sermon, seems like he could have given it to adults only. But the parish priest seems to have announced such delicate and horrid subject even to children only to
Carry out his “punishment” of you? Of Father F? No it seems so wrong, should not have gotten this ugly. Scandal is what seems to have been achieved because of the parish priest’s announcement. Too bad in such a hurtful time in the church, this while thing is unacceptable.

Anonymous said...

I understand everyone on this post may be participating under the pretence of good intentions. I believe the blogger is causing scandal and putting both Fr. Fromageot and the FSSP in a horrible position. Fr. Fromageot himself has contacted the blogger to remove the post and the blogger still refuses. It’s time to act as adults, put your pride aside and look at the bigger picture. We all know the FSSP has few friends in Rome and will inevitably be under attack-as any traditional order will be in the near future, judging by the current state of the church. Putting up, publicizing and perpetuating false information is not going to help the situation, regardless of the bloggers intention of trying to protect Fr. Fromageot or whatever the purpose was in posing this question. Yes, blogger you are entitled to your opinion of the situation and it’s understandable why you may have come to the conclusion you did because limited information was given. If you were so curious to find out details, you could have addressed the individuals directly-without causing this mess. Do what is right, both to protect Fr. Fromageot and the FSSP and remove it as requested. If you don’t, you could be unwittingly contributing to the opening enemies of the FSSP are looking for. Not only that, we would and could lose all the benefits of having the FSSP, not only in our Archdiocese but others as well. I agree, things could have been handled differently, but no one or no organization is perfect. You haven’t been given all the information regarding the situation because you aren’t and shouldn’t be entitled to confidential processes. Do what is right for the greater good and stop the pissing contest.

Anonymous said...

To the previous “Anonymous”:

You would be more convincing if you refrained from suggesting that those who disagree with you are not adults, and are acting out of pride. That kind of personal attack works both ways, because it is not tied down by substance and fact-based argument. And are you really the only one who can see the bigger picture? Your presentation here suggests that you have overextended yourself just by taking the moral high ground.

Fr. Fromageot is no more in a position to ask for the blog to be taken down than any hostage. Have you thought that through? He is under ‘house arrest’, and under orders.

The blogger does not operate under parish authority. You say he is entitled to his “opinion”; it is just that he shouldn’t exercise it, because his free speech is “causing this mess”; so it should be shut down. I fear for this country with that attitude!

There was no “false information” on the posting, only a question, a one liner! You are using language carelessly here. If you wish to be taken seriously, then you are expected to support your claims and work them out in a logical and coherent way and not simply repeat what Fr. Geddes is saying. He has not thought this through either.

The blogger’s intentions, whether good, bad or pretentious, are irrelevant.

The fact that Fr. Geddes’ attempt to secure Fr. Fromageot’s removal in secrecy has backfired, not because of the blogger, but because of faulty decision making. The buck stops with the pastor. I recommend that anyone reading this comment simply review the above posting, which consists only of a question, a hypothesis, a mere speculation. It does not affirm anything. And so what if it did? Even then, the claim that the blogger has caused any of Fr. Geddes’ debacle is so absurd, and so far beneath the Elementary, I am absolutely astounded.

On the matter of not having a right to know about “confidential processes”: how has all this preferential “confidentiality” worked over the last 55 years in the Novus Ordo Church, given the scandalous “investigations” that have been undertaken outside of the range of public scrutiny? What we have seen with Fromageot is sentencing by a drumhead court-martial and a stripping of rank. You should be ashamed of yourself for justifying and appeasing such a feature of totalitarian environments!
If you were to take the time to think this through, do you really imagine, that if the blogger were to give in to these irrational demands, we would all continue indefinitely to have “all the benefits of having the FSSP”, and even expand the traditional Mass? Is this blogger really all that powerful? Does the whole future of the traditional Mass hang on the blogger taking down his post? If I answer “yes” to any of these questions, will you then accept me as an “adult”? Will you accept me as one who has put his “pride” aside? Will you consider I have the “big picture”? How many parishioners even knew about this blog before Fr. Geddes made the mistake of broadcasting it on Sunday as “lies” and “spreading slander”? But there is nevertheless a general principle here: what you call the “enemies” of the FSSP are in reality Socialists or Communists. Or call them “the Left” if you wish. They will come for the Mass and much more. They cannot be appeased; they will have to be defeated.

It is a strange co-incidence how the previous commenter uses the following phrase: "the FSSP has few friends in Rome". This is the same phrase Fr. Fromageot himself used in the parish hall immediately after he announced his "sabbatical".

Anonymous said...

This blogger goes by the handle of indwelling trinity .. clearly a misnomer

Because I made a comment on the Reddit page, I was banned from it without contravening their proper usage rules ..... 10 of them ....Like "commandments" or something ....

You Indwelling Trinity are a troubled soul, who lacks clarity. I pray God will give you the insight and pain required to seek change and make reparations when you are in error.
For the sake of HIS sorrowful passion ... and nothing else.

deedward65
AMDG+

Anonymous said...

The blogger seems to have done nothing wrong! He just wrote “Surprising exit” as mild as it gets for what it was. Then he quoted from parish wire, and he provided a link to a sermon.

A sermon that quotes from a bishop !!!!! Bishop Athanasius Schneider, O.R.C. listen to the sermon before you go Ad Hominem on people!

Christ and the saints proclaimed the truth from the rooftops. The apostles and saints gave their lives for the truth. This blog is fine.

Many people had no idea of this blog, or the story until it was vengefully announced from the pulpit this past Sunday. It’s very simple if you did not want attention to this site, why did you name it on the microphone??That was a terrible thing to do! This site was made famous not by this blog, or by the sermon attachment- it was given traffic and fame for free by Holy Family’s parish priest this past Sunday.

The mess was caused by the Parish Priest Father G. and his vicious attacks on :
parishioners by uncharitably calling them gossips and carriers of lies when that is not what happened ,
on this blogger who is just a faithful person who seems to not be at fault as mentioned on the first paragraph
and Worse of all on Father F whom the parish priest simply destroyed!

Squabbling on the Internet is below the dignity of a priest. Lying is a sin. And scandal is a sin. Enough!

Respect the blogger’s free will. God does!

Momentum Veritatis said...

D You said "Removing comments doesn't mean it isn't gossip. Shameful. Talk to a priest." Do you live in Vancouver? Then say that to my face. If you know details you would like to share then share them. Don't hide behind a keyboard, that is not what I am doing.Father Geddes made it clear everyone knows who I am. If you know me then come see me. Ask Fr.Geddes who I am he will be happy to tell you.

Momentum Veritatis said...

Anonymous said...
"These sermons are recorded and only the parishioners are supposed to have access ... You need a password to access them and we are NOT supposed to share them ....."

Hello Mr. or Mrs. Brave Anonymous. I never needed a password to access the sermons and I was never told before the sermon was posted that the sermons were NOT to be shared. I bet you feel really good about yourself don't you? Posting under "Anonymous" acting all brave and tough. Say that to my face, how do you know what is going on? Do you have something to share? Sounds like you are hiding something.

Momentum Veritatis said...

Anonymous said...
"Fr. Fromageot was not removed because of a sermon or a series of sermons. He was removed because he violated the Diocesan Safe Environment Policy. This was clearly stated to the parish on Sunday. Sorry but this article is misleading."

Can you read? It asks a question, a question that many asked. When this question was asked (via blog post) then the truth came out. Prior to that the parish faithful were LIED to. "Sabbatical" "Obedience" There was never a mention of Violation of Safe Environment Policy. That was only mentioned after the fact. The plan was to sweep this issue under the rug as Father Geddes claimed in his sermon the following week.

This article (if you can even call it that) is not misleading.

Momentum Veritatis said...

Anonymous said...
"I understand everyone on this post may be participating under the pretence of good intentions. I believe the blogger is causing scandal and putting both Fr. Fromageot and the FSSP in a horrible position. Fr. Fromageot himself has contacted the blogger to remove the post and the blogger still refuses. It’s time to act as adults, put your pride aside and look at the bigger picture. We all know the FSSP has few friends in Rome and will inevitably be under attack-as any traditional order will be in the near future, judging by the current state of the church. Putting up, publicizing and perpetuating false information is not going to help the situation, regardless of the bloggers intention of trying to protect Fr. Fromageot or whatever the purpose was in posing this question. Yes, blogger you are entitled to your opinion of the situation and it’s understandable why you may have come to the conclusion you did because limited information was given. If you were so curious to find out details, you could have addressed the individuals directly-without causing this mess. Do what is right, both to protect Fr. Fromageot and the FSSP and remove it as requested. If you don’t, you could be unwittingly contributing to the opening enemies of the FSSP are looking for. Not only that, we would and could lose all the benefits of having the FSSP, not only in our Archdiocese but others as well. I agree, things could have been handled differently, but no one or no organization is perfect. You haven’t been given all the information regarding the situation because you aren’t and shouldn’t be entitled to confidential processes. Do what is right for the greater good and stop the pissing contest."

Obviously you go to Holy Family parish, come see me and talk with me. "Pissing contest" and I'm "causing scandal"
If you don't go to Holy Family Parish and just happen to be a keyboard warrior then fly to Vancouver, I'll even pay half of your ticket. Say this to my face. "Protect Fr.Fromageot and the FSSP"? They publicly ackowledge Fr. broke the safe environment policy....why would I protect that? that makes me as bad as Cardinal Law or pervert McCarrick.
Protect what?
Give me a break!



Momentum Veritatis said...

Fr.Geddes ,
said " "

Whoever is posting as Fr.Geddes is delusional, obviously a priest would never lower himself to get involved in internet blog chatter. Nice try.

Anonymous said...

Prayers that Fr Geddes will face justice very soon. Normally when a priest breaks laws against protecting minors, all of the congregation are notified, so more victims (if true) can come forward.

Parish Priest "Slams" Parishioner from Pulpit

Fr.Daniel Geddes FSSP, Assistant Superior General. Click on link below to hear full sermon. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OXRfpVaX...